I agree! The way Hindus and to an extent Sikhs are treated is nothing short of a disgrace.

To obtain votes many Labour politicians suck up to people pretending to represent the Muslim community. But they do not represent the majority of Muslims in Britain, just noisy minority.

I am angry that Hindus, Sikhs and the majority of Muslims are marginalised by our government.

The cows had TB, public safety comes first quite rightly. If the catholic church kept donkeys with ebola, or the church of englands goats had anthrax, they would be slaughtered too.

Gangotri did not have TB - she had been injured by a bull which tried to mount her. The Hindus and their vets were nursing her. Whilst animal rights loonies will always support the RSPCA at any cost, no matter how sinister its behaviour, ordinary people think it's right to get the facts straight.

All to right, the cows being put down had nothing to do with who owned them. It's an english country, so it's an english law. If you feel that the countrys law doesn't respect your religion, then try a new one (either country or religion). You should just be greatful that england gives you the right to choose your religion, and stop complaining just because you want to get special treatment.

I agree to an extent and see Hindus (and Sikhs) as a role model for other communities, but Britain would become a much worse place to live in if Hindus started constantly throwing their toys out of their prams like an unhealthily large percentage of Muslims do in this country.

After all, everyone panders to Muslims because they scared of being suicide bombed...

It is just possible that the RSPCA and Tim Wass have chosen the wrong enemy here. Noone seems to care about farmers, pet shop owners and other ordinary folk when the RSPCA decides to attack them. However, we Hindus do have a voice, when we want to use it. Roll on the Parliament demo - 13 February - be there!

every community deserves to be respected and treated fairly.
and thats what this issue is about. why should another minority community and their rights be questioned or demeaned though in the process?

every community deserves to be respected and treated fairly.
and thats what this issue is about. why should another minority community and their rights be questioned or demeaned though in the process?

I strongly agree that we as a Nation should be an example for others to follow by practicing tolerance and restraint. I dont believe though that we should consider changing our laws, our customs and our very way of live to for minority religions. The law is simple and has served us well for thousands of years in what is largely a country based around the religion of Christianity and all the associated values that this belief structure brings.
Some countries where enthic religions predominate would not give you the luxury of free choice. Imagine how anywhere in the middle east or india would react if I were to move there and start demanding my english or christian rights be heard! Im sure I would get short shrift!

Steve: "Imagine how anywhere in the middle east or india would react if I were to move there and start demanding my english or christian rights be heard! Im sure I would get short shrift!"

With respect, you're not right about India. Only the Muslim countries treat infidels as second class because of the important-to-them theological concept of Jizya. I lived in India for 4 years as a Christian and got nothing but love, even from the secular modern Muslims.

Every community need to be heard, if gongotri did not have TB then it is unforgivable that she was put down, especially as there were dedicated people avaiable to take care of her. if she did have TB then yes she should have been put down but only to protect the rest of the heard better for one to die than to kill the heard because of stubborness.

Just to clear up on what happened to the bulls: Shambo, a Freisien bull at the Skanda Vale temple in south Wales was put down in the summer on the order of the Welsh Assembly because he had tested positive for bovine TB antibodies. Regulations say any cow testing positive for BTB antibodies should be slaughtered. The temple authorities argued Shambo posed no threat to other animals and that there were other options that could have been explored such as a course of medicine to combat the TB or even to be shipped off to a cow sanctuary in India which had agreed to take him at their own expense.

Gangotri, a cow at the Bhaktivedanta Manor Krishna Temple, was put down in December on the order of the RSPCA who claimed she was suffering uneccessarily after becoming paralysed following a violent mating session. Bhativedanta's own vets disputed the RSPCA's diagnosis saying she wasn't suffering and was making a recovery.

I could not agree more with D, Tyne.

Now you know how the indigenouse population of Britain feel, as they come behind all other groups.

Can Independent UK do an intensive coverage of how Balinese Hindus are increasingly being increasingly trampled by "political Islamisation" i.e about power domination, in one of the most exotic, mystic, beautiful and ancient island on earth, Bali in Indonesia? I recently went to Bali and couldn't believe how the political masters dominated by Javanese-Islamic ethnic group is using race, religion and "Javanese nationhood" to increasingly crush the Balinese ancient, unique and precious socio-cultural and economic heritage and livelihood. Such "political Islamisation" includes the unnecessary construction of large mosques everywhere including towering over the ancient Hindu temples such as in Bedegul, or govt-subsidized resettlement of Javanese settlers that include buying land from very poor Balinese. Many ordinary Balinese especially poor farmers are kept poor by not being provided with any assistance including in agriculture that has left their land idle or devastated by drought; which in turn forced them to sell off their land to the govt or settlers. Also the past history of the great father of independence and socialist Sukarno (murdered by Suharto as of many murdered Balinese supporters of Sukarno during the US-UK and Australia aided military coup in 1965) who's mother is Balinese have kept the hatred burning in Jakarta within the Javanese ruling class and clan of Suharto, towards Balinese's history of great resistance and resilience including towards the Dutch colonizers.

Hinduism does get bad press. Just compare reporting on it. I think it's quite misunderstood unfortunately and media misunderstanding doesn't help.

It is a religion with so much to offer, looking at things like the Bhagavad Gita and some of the symbolism in the worship. It is one of the few religions that structurally accepts that other religions have value, something sorely lacking in other places.

Unfortunately the press, at least press like the BBC, concentrate on caste problems, images of people worshipping cows, and painting one or two Hindu leaders very negatively where their equivalents in other religions may not get such negative press. These images so poorly represent so many Hindus.

Hello jerome, an interesting post.

Just wondering whether as Hindus those complaining truly practise their religion. It seems unlikely, for if they did they'd surely know what the Bhagvad Gita says about karma and duty and not worrying about getting the fruits of their labour.

Re: Akhilesh Patel

Does non-attachment imply not caring? Surely looking at other parts of the 'Gita Hindus are encouraged to act for the benefit of others. In what I've seen of Hinduism they are encouraged to identify closely with the world around them, recognising their connectedness with it. They act, but they act not for personal gain or attachment. I think that idea should be familiar to the Christians here as they have similar teachings.

Does Ahimsa imply sitting back passively not doing anything? This is a question raised about these cows and one that brings on debate in the Hindu community. I've heard said that harm can be done in the name of Ahimsa if it saves so many. An obvious example, you are allowed to defend yourself and others.

Considering harm for the greater good leads to some very complex and difficult questions. Would you kill a human for the greater good?

I'm sorry but the Hindu's who have posted here are just deluded. Where and when has the government pandered to Muslims. Have you heard of IRAQ or maybe PALASTINE or perhaps we could talk about what the so called pacifist Hindus are doing in KASHMIR.

Of the two anlimals you are talking about in your article, one had TB and the other was injured according to the RSPCA and therefore the humane thing to do was to put the animal to sleep.

As soon as I saw the headline "Britain's 'quietist' Hindus say it's time to speak out", I said to myself, this must be another story used purely to open doors to attack muslims. The muslims face daily attacks in the media and muslim countries face daily visits from F16's. Hindus should count themselves lucky, they don't face the same predicament. Hindus are upset about a cow, muslims are upset over millions of women and children being slained.

To point out - there's more than one Richard here.

I hope few people go out to attack Muslims, or people of any religion, yet I see the feeling of being attacked expressed in a few places.

The central argument here is that the RSPCA breached the Hindus' rights as property owners. No one, least of all the Hindus, are asking for special rights. They are asking for the RSPCA not to be treated as if they are somehow immune from the law. It is obvious to me that serious offences have been committed. The police should arrest and prosecute the RSPCA personnel responsible. They won't, but not because the police hate Hindus. This isn't a religious issue - it's all about arrogant people in the RSPCA behaving as if they can do whatever they like without any checks or balances. It's about the police and the government, which is in hock to animal rights causes, and hates farmers, letting them.

i've no problem with the various religions and their opinions it is such a shame the media does not treat christianity with the same respect ridicule, is the usual form of comment the media uses when addressing christianity
it seems media yuppies see other religions(in their eyes),more exotic something
than christianity which it seems they are happy to ridicule and vilify
it seems to me christians be they catholic,protestant or presbytarian
are seen by the media as a legitimate target
such ignorance is pathetic christianity is persecuted more in britainnow than ever beforenot politically correct but true nevertheless

We've made a huge mistake in the past few years appeasing militants in minority communities - like Muslims over the Muhammad cartoons and Sikhs over the temple play. What a surpise that Hindus, Buddhists and evangelicals are seeing where being reasonable has got them and decided to switch tactics to get what they want. When are we going to wake up and realise what we've done?

It is always a sad event when an animal is killed. I do not know the detailed circumstances & I am sure a large majority of people commenting here actually do not know, either. The anger I see here is about people feeling threatened on either sides. The true essence of all religions is the same: to develop in man, a love for God. Rest of the things are superfluous & meaningless social ritualism. God heal us all.

While one may agree with some of the grouses that these Hindu organisations have about the Govt and perhaps the Media, what is beyond me is this clamour by these organisations for more attention frm the govt /media for an issue that an average British Hindu would see as irrelevent.
I am surprised how 'killing' of two cows can be a reason for them to argue that they are not given the same attention as Muslims or others.

hindus are largely seen as a peace loving community in britain and it will be plain foolishness to attempt something which will damage the goodwill.religious machoism will only get them into more trouble at a time when religions the world over have become hotbed for war and hatred.

As Rod Liddle correctly said at the time of Shambo's death, if he had been a Muslim sacred animal, he'd still be chomping the grass today: or alternatively, if he had been killed, the Welsh Assembly would now be the victims of a Fatwah and Cardiff Airport would be lacking a departures gate. I can sympathise with the Hindus.

However, the real issue is around the lamentable state of testing for, and control of, Bovine TB. In the latest act of this comedy of errors, we are about to start randomly killing badgers in an attempt to get a grip on something which has cost us - the taxpayer - millions in compensation and has allwed farmers and their tame vets to kill perfectly healthy animals that may or may not eventually have developed bovine TB, on the basis of a dodgy test, for purely economic reasons.

At the end of the day I don't care if Shambo was Hindu, Mormon,or a Jehovah's Witness. He did not deserve to die just to preserve the fallacy of bisecurity over bovine TB

It is the way of the world to pick on passive community, religion or person. If Indian government and Indian media were not anti-Hindu and violently pro-Muslim I don't think Hindus would have been in a soup today. We Hindus feel safe overseas but unsafe in India. Put thing right in India rest of the world will respect you.

I agree with Steve Rudd. Hindus are safer in the U.K. and the U.S. than in India right now. There have been so many incidents of Islamic terrorism in the last few years in India. Even the Parliament was attacked.

I live in the U.S., but it sounds as if the British Hindu groups just want to have the opportunity for critical dialog with the appropriate government agencies to work out reasonable solutions. Hinduism is not interested in conquering the world.

All we ever see on TV, whether they are interviews or documentries, are muslims. They seem to be representatives of the entire Asian community because they make such a fuss over everything. I am a second generation Hindu, I was born in this country and love it with all my heart, I have a degree and a good job and am a hard-working member of society who contributes back to the country. However, jounalists will never be interested in finding out about people like me and putting that on television or in the newspapers because they are too busy with the fundamental islamists and other muslims who have come to represent the entire asian population in many people's eyes. We never make a fuss and so we are forgotten about.

this article whilst raising s Hindu view point is also taking a side swipe at Muslims.

The argumnet -hindue are peaceful, quite, submissive -muslims are all angry, demanding and a threat -is simple and fallacious.

If you think india is all peace on love you are much mistaken - the caste system is thriving -to the benefit of a minority. The number of baby girls killed at birth is astounding. The hindu terrorism prevlent in Kasmir is frightening.

Yes there are some extermists who utlise Islam for further their criminal, political aims - such charcters exist in mnay societies and rally to the banners of many causes. They all need to be dealt with.

However what we such all aviod is this cynical terrible and frankly immature potrayal of one group or another - each issue that arises should be considered on it merits, in line with the law and it needs to be addressed with sensitivity - regrdles of whether you are Hindu, Muslim,Jew Christian, non religiuos, goth, mod or rocker..

Dont let ill considered articles further divide communities.

Firstly to D.Tyne and Steve,niether did India nor any other country ask you British and European powers to occupy,loot and pillage their lands in your inglorious past.

To Minty and his ilk you might be dumstruck to discover the origins of your belief system as well as its bloody history which aided in CONVERTING much of the present islamic nations from a glorious past( which is being systematically and intentionally destroyed by a culture which,still trapped in the 7th century,can't come to terms with the modern world and other far more advanced/humane ,albeit ancient, belief systems.). Your founder himself has not covered himself with glory-what with being a blood-thirsty desert raider to marryig a girl of six(not to mention his other 11 wives) and then cosumating that marriage when she turned nine! David.

Speak Up: "This article whilst raising Hindu view point is also taking a side swipe at Muslims."

Speak Up I think you'll find that at no point in my above blog to I even mention Muslims. The entry was simply reporting the fact that some Hindu community leaders are saying they need to speak up more for their beliefs like other religious communties sometimes do. Whether those "other religions" are Sikhs, Christian or Muslims or anyone else for that matter I make no judgement.

I do however agree with you that not all Hindus are peaceful which is why I wrote: "Generally (but not always) Britain's Hindu population has served as a shining example of cultural and social integration."

I agree that caste discrimination is still rampant (see my blog here:http://blogs.independent.co.uk/independent/2008/01/caste---a-discr.html)

And like all communities there are clearly a minority of extremists such as the Hindu nationalist supporters on the more extreme fringes of organisations like the BJP and RSS, that fully support the type of inter-communal bloodletting that India experienced during the Godhra rioting.

With regard to David's comment about me, I simply don't understand it. I said that Gangotri did not have TB and that she had been injured by a bull which tried to mate with her. There have been a number of posts on this and other sites claiming the animal had TB. I said that the Hindus and their vets were nursing the animal's injuries. I then said that "animal rights loonies" would always support the RSPCA at any cost, no matter how sinister its behaviour. How can David, who professes the Hindu cause, have taken offence at that? As I observed above - ordinary people think it's right to get the facts straight. I support the Hindus expression of disgust with the RSPCA. However, the fact is that no one from this animal-rights dominated Government will stand up and criticise the RSPCA for their disgusting actions. Certainly there is no sign of any action. This is, no doubt, for fear that a farmer or a pet shop owner might escape the RSPCA's noose and abuse. That said - has anyone read Muckspreader in Private Eye this week? The article about Martin and Gina Griffin and their horse Florry is absolutely fantastic! Time for the letters to get some letters in to the papers, and Private Eye in particular, methinks. The Hindus experience is far from unique, as the Griffins' case shows.

I am aware of many such similar actions by the RSPCA to respectable animal keepers. It is well known in various circles that the RSPCA use prosecutions as a fund raising scheme. You prosecute someone and they are given money by the innocent public. With a 100 million to raise each year it is not surprising that they have to be somewhat devious in order to keep the donations rolling in. What is a dead cow to them, even if it has hindu owners. They are killing animals every day under the title of welfare. Most of these killings are actually done for cost reasons and not welfare. You can do a lot of killing using animal welfare as an excuse. I was of the understanding though that welfare meant you actually did your best to care for.

This is going off-topic, but I need to respond.
Speak up writes:
"If you think india is all peace on love you are much mistaken - the caste system is thriving -to the benefit of a minority. The number of baby girls killed at birth is astounding. The hindu terrorism prevlent in Kasmir is frightening.

Yes there are some extermists who utlise Islam for further their criminal, political aims - such charcters exist in mnay societies and rally to the banners of many causes. They all need to be dealt with."

Please don't get started on Kashmir, because this pisses off a lot of Indians and makes Hindus question the integrity and loyalty of Muslim Indians. It's typical of Muslims to ignore history, namely, that Pakistan invaded sovereign Indian territory several times and continues to covertly and at times, overtly, supply the muslim terorists in Kashmir. Islam mandates its followers to conquer as much territory as it can by any means possible, including terrorist violence. Don't try to create an equivalence between Hindu problems which are acknowledged by Hindus and we are working to fix and worldwide Muslim atrocities which are vehemently denied and obscured by the Ummah. Right after 9/11, I didn't know much about Islam and gave it the benefit of the doubt. Now, after more reading and recent world events, I find it to be one of the most hateful, misogynist religions in the world. Islam is a problem for the entire world. Muslims use fear, intimidation, and violence to dominate other groups because their religion tells them it is their right. Sadly, I think other Asian immigrant groups will suffer for the crimes of the Muslim community when the white community has run out of patience.

I think English people (government officials and the queen) need to realise what the state of this country would be minus all hindus (financially definitely)

Understand that there are many religions who freely practice their beliefs in india. A country and culture which does not convert people unlike muslims and christians.

The western world lacks education when it comes to distinguishing hindus from muslims. To them brown is brown, you're all the same - WRONG.

Look at who converts and who doesn't - like christians muslim's do, hindu's don't. Look at also techniques used to convert people by muslims and christians ranging from blasphemy to threats.

The same way muslim rulers have converted and killed countless hindus, christians have also converted and killed hundreds of thousands of hindus (unarmed men, women and children) - a.k.a. your british empire.

How much has this empire stolen? ranging from money - which will not be replaced (unlike certain countries who have given back that which rightfully belongs to former occuppied territories)how about justice for the hindu victims families - zero.

The british are the reason you have a pakistan, three wars between india and pakistan and casualties fairly regularly due to suicide bombers. So don't tell a hindu, MATT about obeying english laws.

The problem is hindus have a tendency to committ the crimes of integrating and obeying laws with the result being this very same souls being taken advantage of and not yelling and screaming when having injustices committed against them, which home and away is time and time again despite them exercising more tolerance to date then islam and christians in their history have ever known. This has to change, trespassing, lying then killing a cow who was comfortable and being taken care by at least a vet is just another example.

Whether human life or an animals if its a hindu life christians and islam have a common bond - convert, kill, steal, impose your religious beliefs on them, the same goes for those who are black who've been converted into these religions.

It will be interesting to see what you explain to your maker jesus and allah when you state how you have used their words, the religious texts the bible and qur'an respectively. Not just the soldiers, but the puppet masters too (those in power past, present and no doubt the future to).

Christians and muslims will not stop their conversions and for those out there who are decent christians and if such muslims are out there too you have your own brothers and sisters to thank for this and you're own lack of action.

So please anyone who decides to shoot down indians/hindus and their beliefs and way of life, read about india and hindus, you may be stunned when you read of the injustices it has incurred, what it has given this world, the many souls and religions it has given shelter to and the consequences it has incurred by allowing such tolerance and open mindedness.