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Friday, 15 August 2008

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Doc M

After years of independence? People in all of these countries have the responsibility to change their own laws, as people here succeeded in doing. To say "this law was imposed by our colonial masters", and expect them to apologise for it, without changing them oneself…? Independence is for making one's own changes. 21C Britain is not 19C Britain, and 21C India is not 19C India: apologies would be pointless.

Mike Homfray

Must agree - it is quite within the competence of the Indian government to change the law. As other aspects of colonialism were rejected - why not this one?

G Gardner

India had an outbreak of hysteria ,not to mention rioting ,last year when Richard Gere and Shilpa Shetty had a bit of a snog.

Yet we are supposed to believe that Indians in general approve of buggery .

I don't think so.

Ian

Get stuffed, and that's from a gay man, I'm fed up with former colonies blaming us for something which happened before I was born, and had no control over.

Change your laws if you don't like them, don't blame me.

ems

I do think the Indian Gay community has gone over the top for asking the british govt to apologise ...but let that not be an excuse to bracket this 'whinge' into that category of all the wrongs by the colonial masters....this becomes apparent from the way Mr jerome Tayor has trivialised some of the other wrongs that have taken place in the past. teh first two paras are quite suggestive of that..

Slavery and the 'divide and rule' game played by the British are not the same as homophobia. Ian, some times it does take a long time to undo the damage done by colonial rulers...it is not like re-building home after a storm.

Oxymoron

I absolutely agree. And while we're about it, how about getting the Catholioc Church to apologise for all the horrendous things it has done, including burning queers at the stake. At least an apology will make it clear that we never had the right to interfere in Indian culture in this way, and if we don't apologise it will mean that we still believe that we did.

Oxymoron

Ian is, I think, getting a we bit paranoid here. After all, who's blaming him personally? The fact that he can't see the difference between blaming a government of the past and blaming him personally reveals his level of uptight defensiveness. When someone has done something wrong, sincere apologies clear the air. It doesn't matter when it occurred. OK, so slavery was worse, as was the genocide of aboriginal peoples all over the world. But this 'little thing' which Indian gays are raising is no less an example of the arrogance of colonialism,than anyyhing else . It shouldn't be allowed to rest until an apology has been issued.

Ron

NO apology! Not in my name.. this would send out the message that India is now a febrile and disparate community unable to mend the wrongs in its own legal system. It has to look to the superior Mother Country to learn tolerance and humanity. They must learn to stand on their own two feet, we cant keep bailing them out all the time, notwithstanding the contribution during WWII. Jolly good chaps during that bust-up, what?

Joe

Should we also apologise for banning other Indian traditions such as suttee? India has been independent for 60 years and has had plenty of time to get rid of this colonial law - as the British parliament itself did in 1967. Don't suppose there's any chance of a thank you for the network of railways and other public works we left - not to mention of course the legal system itself?

Oxymoron

I though Suttee would get a mention. People just love abstract equations. The Indian gay community is fighting against something which the Brits were originally responsible for. I don't see anyone fighting to restore suttee. But people are fighting to repeal this law. An apology from those who first made the law would strengthen the hand of Indian gay people in their fight for their rights. What's so humiliating to ordinary Britons about that? It's governments we are talking about.

Oxymoron

And while we're about it, we should apologise for the British reaction to the Indian mutiny. Hundreds or thousands, perhaps millions massacred over that. You talk about the railways and other public works. There's the utter barbarism of British Imperialism in India as well.

Joe

Look at the big picture Oxymoron. And brush up on your history - hundreds of thousands were not killed during and after the Mutiny and certainly not millions. Calm down! Anyway, when the Brits were being beastly to the Indian gay community in the 19th century all my ancestors were in Ireland, probably being oppressed by the Brits (well that's all we Brits are good for innit?) - don't worry I don't expect an apology. Though a bit of compo would be welcome.Maybe that's what they are really angling for?

Oxymoron

Ireland, of course, is another sad chapter in the history of British Imperialism - as is Scotland, where I happen to live. I have done some history on the Indian Mutiny and the figure does run into hundreds of thousands. And the methods of killing were abominable too. I refuse to listen to those who talk about the civilising influence of British Imperialism. Railways were built only to make it easier to rob people. But amends can be made, and apologies draw a line in the sand.

Taran Preet Singh

Well I am an Indian and I am not sure whether what Indian gays are saying is right or not? But someone mentioned about the Railways and World War II. Let me tell you that India is quite a big country as compared to UK. It was strategical need for all your forefathers to connect India as it was divided into princely states. English needed railways for better governance and also to transport the wealth. It was built from the Indian revenue anyways. Also in the second world war and the first world war as well English only stayed a chance because of the Colonial Indian army fought for them. And till date there is no compo???? Infact you owe a lot to Indians who died for your country otherwise you would not have born into a free England but instead English would have been subjects of german occupation.

Thank you

Stephen Lawrence

Apologize.

I do see a potential downside in taking up more and more ministerial and parliamentary time in issuing a growing number of apologies, but perhaps then we could issue a 'blanket apology' covering all the out-moded and otherwise disgraceful behaviours of our forefathers. If your grandparents did something which you now would disapprove of, wouldn't you also apologize: "They know not what they did". Perhaps the democratic process forced them to say what their electors wanted to hear. In that case, we'd be apologizing for our own intolerant views. Either way, we should apologize.

Rajan Mehra

There is little tolerance for gays in Indian society. The law makes it worse. By asking Britain to apologize these people are trying to highlight the fact to the Indian public that it is the antiquated, discriminatory laws - a legacy of British rule - which make their live miserable. I don't they really expect Britain to apologize.

Satov

Do Indians have some secret desire to go back to colonial rule? I'm suprised they didn't swipe away all colonial laws at the beginning and start from scratch. That would seem like the best way to erase or at least reduce the legacy of colonial rule. It's odd that so many nations hold on to ideas that were introduced by colonial oppressors and somehow even think that you are un(insert nationality here) if you don't support the idea even though it came from somewhere else.

Indian should also legalize cannabis. Laws against cannabis are also a legacy of colonial rule. Traditionally it was an important religious herb.

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