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« Faith and Unreason | Main | Stop and search - a reply »

Thursday, 31 January 2008

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Mark Braund

Thanks Deborah,

In a few words you've summed up exactly why initiatives to tackle crime fail over and over again. If half the resource that goes into detection went into long-term prevention by addressing root causes, then considerable progress could be made. But there seems little hope of that any time soon.

Benjamin Kirby

I have a problem with the basic logical premises of this article. It is true that ethnic minorities tend to be from lower socio-economic backgrounds. This is not surprising really if you think about what sort of educational backgrounds most of them had. Even a doctor, if they trained in China or India, has problems working as a doctor in Britain. However there is little evidence that this is persistent. Ethnic minorities tend to do disproportionately well at school and in business into the second generation. The cliche is that Patel is the most common name for millionaires in the UK. It is a few communities that show persistent multi-generational poverty and low achievement. Most Muslim communities and Afro-Caribbean communities for instance. Not, however, African communities. Which rules out racism as your average British racist can hardly tell the difference and is unlikely to care. Nor do women from those groups do as badly as men suggesting a *cultural* factor within those communities.

Even if we accept that minorities are poor, does it follow that "stigmatising" them is going to hurt? I would suggest not, or at least not as much as cracking down on crime will help them. The victims of crime are disproportionately poor minorities. Being stopped and searched may harm their self esteem but so does being mugged or raped. Not even mentioning being stabbed. Nothing stops a small business like being robbed on a regular basis. Even bullies who beat up smart children at school are likely to have a greater impact.

There was a fuss in the 1980s over stop and search. Let me suggest this was an early attempt at Respect and the Stop the War Coalition. Having failed to rouse the workers, the Trots tried to make a common cause with the ethnic minorities (as they do now with the Islamists) against The Man. And they were successful. Let me also suggest that outside those self-appointed "community leaders" there is no concern about Stop and Search at all in any ethnic community. Even if there is, the problem will only go away when those communities accept that S&S is the lesser of two evils and having their children stabbed to death on a regular basis is worse. Time to ignore the hysteria over S&S, and for a lot more proper reporting on who is behind these campaigns, and restart what was and is a reasonable policing measure.

fr dave

Maybe, just maybe, there is a question not so much if S&S is done, but ... how ?

The explosion in france before christmas began in an area where the cops disrespectfully and regularly stopped "minorities" for an "ID check" .

"Alright Mamadou, let's see your papers then ".

Anyone remember the undercover BBC? journalist who recorded racist language at a Police Training School ?

So the answer is we need clever policing. Since they take their lead from the politicians, unlikely, eh ?

thbt

"Most Muslim communities and Afro-Caribbean communities for instance."

You mean Pakistani or Bangladeshi, rather than "Muslim".

Not, however, African communities.

And by 'African' do you include Somalians?

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