I'm sending this blog from one of the most surreal locatons on the planet, the massive CERN centre, near Geneva, where scientists and engineers have designed and built the Large Hadron Collider. The LHC is below me, deep underground. I would not wish to be down there, because it is so cold that a Geordie would need an overcoat. Along its 27 kilometre tunnel run two tubes, race tracks for protons, inside which it is colder than deep space.
The best way to annoy someone employed by CERN is to ask when they expect a black hole to pop out of their multi-billion pound plaything and swallow the earth.
This canard arose because black holes in space have a vast gravitational pull, since they are caused by the collapse of stars much bigger than the sun. But a black hole created from the collision of atomic particles would not be big enough to swallow a gnat, and would soon disappear.
But instead of complaining about the volume of phone calls they have been getting from worried members of the public, the CERN boffins should thank Professor Otto Rossler, the nutty German chemist who tried to have the experiment stopped because of its imagined threat to the planet. His intervention has been magnificient publicity. Theoretical physics has not been so sexy since Oppenheimer designed the atomic bomb - and this time, no one gets hurt.
The big question has to be what do we really need to do this for - in my opinion it's to satisfy the elevated egos of scientists hungry for a Nobel Prize.
Why don't they use their energies more effectively in helping to tackle world poverty, hunger, drought, famine, pandemics? How can our government, or any for that matter, justify such expenditure? There are pot holes in the road where I live - bugger black holes, I'd rather they sorted the achievable out first!!
Posted by: Wes Carmichael | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 02:23 PM
i dont want the world to end but if everyone was scared that the world would end than why would they put the earth in danger but i would like to know how the world began but they need the money they used for more inportant stuff like hunger and poverty thanks and get back to me
amy jade simon
13 years of old
Posted by: amy simon | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 02:33 PM
You said...
"Why don't they use their energies more effectively in helping to tackle world poverty, hunger, drought, famine, pandemics? How can our government, or any for that matter, justify such expenditure? There are pot holes in the road where I live - bugger black holes, I'd rather they sorted the achievable out first!!"
What a demagogue!, the total cost of the experiment is around 6000 million euros, over the last 20 years comes to a 300 million a year. If we are to compare, how much cost to buy a football player?. How much did Fanny Mae lost in dodgy financial transactions? How much is going to cost us the bail out of Northern Rock? How much food do we through away?
Playing the money card is a bit absurd. If we are going to question our goverment expenditure (and the UK is not the only one picking up the tab on this one) I can think of better things.
If you have big pot holes in your road, I advise you to contact your council and ask whether they invested any of the road funds in the LHC.
Posted by: manolo | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 02:35 PM
it's useless in ma opinion .. i think v hav lot of other natural calamaties to faougt nt to gv origin of new calamities to our future generation ..
i just pray 4 its sucess nw ..
Posted by: vinit | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 02:41 PM
I think there's some mistake. According to the BBC it's all to do with a relaunch of Brown and New Labour. At least that's my take on it here:
http://theorangepartyblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/browns-big-bang-starts-well-says-bbc.html
Posted by: the orange party | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 02:54 PM
Even though manolo might have been a bit harsh, I have to agree. The cost is not an issue. He very well explained more disturbing imbalances.
This is, however, (one of) the greatest scientific experiments ever deducted. Incredibly exciting. Micro black holes pulling the earth in... not so sure..., but hey, whatever the outcome...
Posted by: eddie | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 02:54 PM
i mean conducted
Posted by: eddie | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 02:57 PM
oh and to answer Wes's question :
It's quite complicated, so read a few books about quantum theory, especially String theory, you can even just buy the "Elegant Universe" DVD, by Brian Greene (Author of the book). It will show you and you might see.
Cheers
Posted by: eddie | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:06 PM
Im not sure the majority of you understand what could come of this experiment. Smashing 2 particles together, fusion, releases so much energy that a controlled version of this phenomenoa (what scientists are working on now with the collider) could help the energy problem in the world and reduce pollution (fusion power would not pollute at all). Not only that, but the experiment could begin to unlock secrets at the quantum level. Eventually we might even be able to move through solid objects or travel space etc. This seems like a jump but thats only cuase i dont have the time to explain it further. If people look back from the future say in a few thousand years, they may just remember the entire 21st century for the beginning of this one experiment.
Posted by: Another thought - what do you think? | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:08 PM
Seriously, people, this is a blog, not a text. When you type, make sure your grandparents would understand what they are reading!!!
Anyway, I agree that the money spent on this project would have been put to much better use elsewhere: Renewable energies, stamping out hunger and poverty, or even more stable/long lasting compounds for paving roads. I'll admit, our roads here in MI have to be repaved every year because they use concrete and asphalt that is practically destroyed three months after it's put down.
Science needs to concentrate on our most immediate needs, and determining how the universe was created is not one of those needs (whether or not some believe they would destroy our planet in the process of this research).
Posted by: Wolfgal | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:08 PM
Christian fundamentalists shouldn't be worried, since in their view the "big bang" never happened, therefore there is no danger from operating the collider. Worst that could happen is France is swallowed up by a black hole.
Posted by: Chasm | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:10 PM
I think this is a good experiment, science can do alot worse things to us all if they really wanted to. the money shouldn't be an issue, how does it directly affect you? As for stopping world poverty and all that crap, forget it, countries like Africa got theirself into that mess by oweing countries like the US and UK more money than you can imagine, it's their governments fault if they wasted it all on not solving their own problems.
Posted by: Nick | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:12 PM
i think it was a complete waste of money just for a few scientists to reveal secrets that just they want to know and accept appraisel by people.. 5 billion?? waste of money; ther is lots of countries in poverty and that money could have been put to much better use saving the world not possibly ending it!!!
Posted by: concerned member of puplic | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:24 PM
I really can't understand this "it costs too much money, why not feed the hungry" argument that depressingly too many people are coming out with.
Why are people moaning about the expense of this magnificent scientific achievement, when many many more times this amount of money is spent on the military, on bureaucratic government, on TV viewing rights, on Hollywood blockbusters, on two weeks of Olympics, on designing flashy new cars, etc etc.
Eighty nations have come together to try and discover how the Universe was formed, and to hopefully take science on to new levels, which MAY result in fantastic new opportunities for the human race (remember the Electron was considered fairly useless when first discovered).
Posted by: Dave | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:24 PM
JUST THEY R TRYING TO GET THE TRUTH & YA Y NOT THEY SHOULD DO THAT BEING A MOST TALENTED SOCIAL ANIMAL HIS DUTY IS TO GET THE TRUTH OF THE NATURE & THE UNIVERSE IN WHICH HE LIVES.
SO, WE SHOULD SUPPORT & ENCOURAGE THEM FOR THAT.
Posted by: MAHESH | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:25 PM
Nothing will happen. It is just a billion dollar plaything.
Posted by: Shreelalitha | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:31 PM
haha.
I'm a Christian and I'm from Africa. Funny like that.
Firstly, the big bang is very real and true. The bible is only a metaphor, or would you rather have that The Holy Book was an incomprehensible science paper?
Secondly, good move there Nick, kicking a continent when it's down. Africa might be to blame for all it's problems, but remember - it's not the only continent in the world. In this case, it takes more than 2 to tango. Look at all the other countries devouring themselves from the inside out. All with the interference of the rest of the world.
Anyway, apologies, I digress. This thread is indeed about a scientific experiment. I don't want to anger anyone.
Posted by: eddie | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:34 PM
It would be cheaper to BUY a Nobel Prize !!
Posted by: PERICOZ | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:42 PM
Oh well... The guys who worked ca 150 years ago on electricity were called nutballs and it definitely couldn't give any kind of practical results. It's just a stupid phenomena that only interests a few freaks.
Now roll on 150 years and please try to imaging todays world without electricity and all the rest that has followed from fundamental research like this. No community can survive long term without fundamental research. The things discovered in fundamental research help in all fields later on.
You would not have X-ray machines, computer tomography, MRT imaging in medicine without collider physics. For example the work done at CERN on antimatter could provide radiology solutions for cancer curing as antimatter is orders of magnitude more efficient in killing cancer cells while keeping the good tissue.
Posted by: Mario Kadastik | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:42 PM
Scientist who are working on this particular project are not the same scientists who could help solve renewable energy problems, famine, or pot hole problems. However, they can help advance science to a new level; a level at which many of our everyday problems could be solved using particle physics. Just look what DNA has done for the understanding of human body and health. If physics takes science to the next level of understanding, who knows what is truly possible.
Posted by: matt | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:46 PM
1. If hundreds of smart people from dozens of countries agreed to built this thing it means it was not a toy. Please please stop saying crap.
2. Some say we should focus on alternative energy sources. Hopefully this collider will help discovering one (if not already discovered and locked somewhere) but my concern is how on Earth would the oil giants be stopped. Whole freaking planet is dependent on oil and I just can't imagine scrapping the whole infrastructure. It's not just science - it's a deep political sh*t.
Posted by: Alex | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 03:52 PM
hey i dont know a lot aobut this stuff but what ever started the universe would not be that easy to find out not from a light anyway and who gave these ppl the right to say to go ahead with it im not ready to die yet if it were to collaps in on us it cost 5 billion to make and a 5 million dollar electric bill to run the machine im haveing trouble getting a job and a house with rates and fule contantly on the rise and transport adn there rasing it coz they wasted money for this maching why not waste it frezzin the antrtic so we dont flood or globle warming
Posted by: Andrew | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 04:02 PM
can u not jus leave it be we r luki 2 be alive and hav an earth instead of people not knowing whats going to happen when they send this waste of money 2 space. the earth is being destroyed enough without you all puttig it at more risk of ending in a flash just for your knowledge to see if it will or will not work.NO wonder people are destraught and worrien so much and wondering y u all want to put us at risk!! will some 1 get the balls to come to us and explain absolutly everything!!
Posted by: concerned member of puplic | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 04:09 PM
good, its amazin', good job, welldone
Posted by: ehsan | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 04:10 PM
alex is right. people don't know what they're talking about so they say crap.
1) stop complaining about the cost, there have been enough examples of wasted money... football, war, HOLLYWOOD. come on people.
2) if you don't know anything about the scientific theories that this experiment is based on, then rather not comment on it. seriously, stop talking about something you know nothing of. this is not something you can explain in a paragraph, not even in one book. it's the pinnacle of modern science as we know it, not some toy. maybe you should get back to watching your favourite low-rate reality tv show and gossiping about the fat girl's make-up.
Posted by: roux | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 04:16 PM
If at least half of the amount funded to this single project, is spent on securing the poor and unprivileged kids around the world, what a difference it would make to them and there by to the world! We all now know that we are heading towards the last days of the world - Its begun ! Though we cant stop it - We can pray about it - so that who so ever innocent are going to be the victims of these senseless acts will find peace at least after their death. Though only few people on the world are involved in this and only few are reason for this, the impact is going to be on those millions, who might have never known what a proton is ! Sigh
Mother Earth is been put to enormous amount of shame and pain. One thing these so called genius scientists need to remember is " We reap what we sow " and it doesn’t end just with them!!
Posted by: Vinfred | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 04:25 PM
LHC + People who comment on teh interwebs + Uninformed opinion = disaster.
Posted by: Harry T. | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 04:31 PM
Come on people.
Read up on this experiment before you start throwing your comments out there. This is HUGE. If successful, it turns what we know as 2 dimensional and 3 dimensional into 9+ dimensions. There is zero concept or understanding of how this can change our very existence and perception of our world. Its all good.
Plus, hopefully this will shut those crazy fanatical religious types up once and for all.
Posted by: Sebring | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 04:39 PM
Roux, this is where we can all voice our opinion on todays event, so please do not tell us to to "stop talking about something we know nothing of"
Us every day people of Britain have been given details of the project and what could have happened - its all very scary and I must admit I was very anxious this morning, we should not be put in that position
Posted by: Bumpkin | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 04:42 PM
hi i just writing to say is this true were all going to die becuase i am getting scared the people in the school were talking about it today?
Posted by: mazlupa | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 04:44 PM
this is so flipen stupied.
Posted by: john | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 05:04 PM
is it 4 real and when is it guna happen :P
Posted by: john | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 05:06 PM
If the world was going to end today it would of happend whilst the experiment was going on but another reason why the world wasn't going to end was if it was socity wouldn't be the way it is people would brace there self no children would go to school and if it was going to end don't you think they would give us a warning telling us it was going to end By Sarah Fergusson age 11
Posted by: sarah fergusson | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 05:12 PM
Oh please get a grip. If the cash spent on this facility were spread amongst all the suggested alternatives, from potholes to potheads, it would last a shorter time than one of the collisions they are creating. We must invest in pure science to progress as a species. This is all about looking at the stuff of existence at a deeper level than ever before. When the microscope was invented nobody expected it to lead to the discovery of micro organisms and cells etc. People probably called that a waste of time and money but look how that and its successors have benefited mankind. Now we have the opportunity to see beyond the atom then who knows what advances this will lead to. Not just in knowledge but in applications we cant even dream of. The spin offs from pure science are as unpredictable as they are numerous. I will say to all the people with ideas about where else the money for this could have been spent, the one big thing I am hoping for from this is answers to our present energy crisis. If we can learn to convert mass to energy at only say 10% efficiency we would have limitless clean safe energy for all time. Instead of burning things to get a little heat/energy and polluting our life support system. Another spin off could be radio less/wireless communications systems. We just don’t know how many ways this will advance us ALL.
Posted by: David from Polegate | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 05:50 PM
I just heard they created a black hole 10 minutes ago, or was it 3 billion years ago I have lost track of timmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeee.....................
Posted by: Toby Le'Rhone | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 06:02 PM
Let's not be too concerned about the billions of OUR money that it's costing but consider how much energy has been used in its manufacture and construction. How much energy is it using when online: approximately the same amount as a city of 300000 people I hear.
And I'm constantly being lectured to by Government and officialdom to sort my yoghurt cartons and newspapers etc into the correct receptacle and change to energy saving light bulbs to save this precious resource!!
Well if a few self serving eggheads can waste this much of it, at this time, then in future they can screw for my contribution!
Posted by: Billy | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 06:03 PM
A step in any direction is positive
Posted by: dave chisnall | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 06:12 PM
I have been reading through the points above and one thing is obvious. The writers, who approve, mostly, have well thought out comments expressed in a clear and concise way. Written with care and obviously informed. The comments against, mostly, seem poorly written and knee-jerkish with a smattering of religious fundamentalism. I am not saying people who object to the CERN project are all thick but please draw your own conclusions.
Posted by: David from Polegate | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 06:25 PM
everyone here is ridiculous. it's so tough to fight in a forum. go out and get on with your lives. i mean, really, if everyone was that concerned with the world ending, why doesnt everyone get off their lazy butts and spend time with their families and what not before they die? or are we all just too scared to face the possbile reality? personally, i think we may be better off without some of the low-lives in the world...
Posted by: a kid | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 06:26 PM
if it does fail they estamate world will surive for about 50months how do u think ppl will act when they hear the world will in 50months?
Posted by: kirk | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 06:26 PM
I'm all agreed that money is wasted in far worse ways elsewhere, but that doesn't prevent this from being a bit too expensive...
After all, we already know what scientists and governments need to do to prevent the climate problems contributing to famine, and to create renewable energy supplies.
Before we put this kind of money into more research, why not fund the technology we already have and are neglecting to use? Subsidise solar and wind power with the money, and fund genetic technology that would help with our food shortages. Sometime then then I'd be happy to see the CERN experiment's results. I'm fascinated at the thought of what they'll find, but I feel that this sort of money should be used for less exiting but more useful research.
Just my point of view ^^
Posted by: guennol | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 06:30 PM
if the world ends, it ends. not much anyone can do or say about that. it's just a fact of life. the government and what not will be here as long as there is a planet, and they are going to do experiments you do not agree with. but guess what? you can't do anything about it. so get on with life, learn to deal with it and don't be so selfish. a guy commented at the top of the page, "the electron was labeled useless when it was discovered" and look at it now. pretty funny, isn't it?
Posted by: a kid | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 06:32 PM
Hey Kirk what are you on?
Posted by: Toby Le'Rhone | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 06:33 PM
Fear on the 21 of october, when they start using the lasers!
Posted by: sharon | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 06:34 PM
why do we need to pay T.O. or Reggie Bush millions of dollars a year to play football? i say screw that. where are out hard earned tax dollars going. certainly not to the roads considering PENNdot has been working on the same area of a highway up here for atleast 6 months now and no progress has seemed to be made. but we are still paying them $13 an hour to stand around all day. but hey, lets not put that towards some logical scientifical research now. that might seem a little crazy, ya know?
Posted by: a kid | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 06:35 PM
hey Sharon, maybe we need lasers, zap some sense into people.
Posted by: a kid | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 06:37 PM
£5billion (split between several nations), to perhaps unlock the secrets of Nuclear Fusion, advance particle accelerator technology (already utilised in PET scan equipment), the potential of cancer reversal (via control of mutation), and a better understanding of quantum physics.
Bargain!
£9-12billion for the London 2012 Olympic Games.
A tad pricey!!
Posted by: Doog le Moog | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 07:18 PM
My son has been woking on this project at Cern for years and studied Physics for years before that, the best and brightest of scientists are involved in this project, we don't have enough young people going into the world of science. Maybe this will inspire them. I have been lucky enough to have been inside the collider and it is amazing, and if you think I would want my son or any one elses son in harms way you have another thought coming. Congratulations Cern I am proud to be related to someone there.
Posted by: Anonymous Person | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 08:07 PM
i think it absoloutly rediculous that they are PUTTING us all at risk of dieing! (even tho ppl say theres only a small chance) Whether you beleive that god created the world or that it was a 'big bang' thats no excuse for possibly killing everyone.
i think the scientist should just leave it and get on with life the way it is. to except that ppl have different beleifs.
i am very dissapointed and many ppl are very upset.
those scientist are scum in my oppinion. They could just stick to sorting out different (normal) things like electricity, bills poverty, the homeless, all that stuff, and STOP futtering about with Human nature. it should be left the way it is and i dont care wat any one says.
Posted by: A kid | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 08:14 PM
I agree with the person who said that most of the negative comments are baseless and a bit strange. I also agree that while it is a huge expendature, we could save alot more in alot more places. If you look higgs bosun (which is what they're searching for) on the web, most sites will tell you about what it is and how they intend to find it. Some of these critics should probably reasearch this before posting a comment. I think that the CERN LHC is a great advancement in technology, and is definitly not some nobel hopeful's over priced toy. P.S. I'm 14 and know more about this than some of you.
Posted by: joelt | Wednesday, 10 September 2008 at 08:19 PM