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Monday, 27 October 2008

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Pat

This is unbelievable in a nation that poses as spreading democracy.

Nerva

Peter Tatchell provides a good insight into the 2004 presidential election in America. Much the same could be said for the election in 2000, except for Ohio read Florida.

One of the big problems with American elections is, as Mr. Tatchell mentioned, the computerised "voting machines" at the polling stations. On the basis of a teenager being able to "hack" into the most sensitive computer systems, then what chance has a computerised voting system got?

Another drawback in the USA is the fact that the country does not permit international election observers.

Mind you, neither does the UK. But then, at least we vote using paper - a ballot paper - and these are counted under the watchful eyes of candidates. Far less chance of "stealing an election" this way - if not impopssible.

Next week, when Americans vote for their State representatives to the Electoral College, who in turn, elect the US President and Vice President in December, there are bound to be some serious discrepencies - in fact, with the "early polling" there have already been reports of "computer glitches" where duly registered voters simply do not exist, according the the polling station computer screens.

Neil McGowan

Peter, your own Party is currently led by an unelected numpty, for whom the country didn't vote.

Moreover, your Party has just moved a twice-deselected crook back into the Government by making him a Peer.

Are these example of the kind of "democracy" for which you stand, Peter?

Morever, you and your chums have cheerfully supported every military action, every illegal rendition, every secret torture-camp, every sponsored invasion that the Bush regime has promoted.

The needle's hovering on "empty" on the Credibility Meter, Peter.

Your future work with the Indy might involve delivering it on a paper-round after the next elections.

carla

I can't wait to see how this Selection will work. Early voters have already complained of their Obamas turning into McCains. I have yet to receive my ballot so it's beginning to look like my vote won't be counted & so it goes. This time it's going to be a bit tougher to pull off I suspect. We'll see, soon enough.

TripleRLtd

An alternative view...

www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/03/kennedy/index.html

Shoey

Just in response to Neil McGowan:

Peter Tatchell is a member of the Green Party, not Labour - if you live in Oxford East, you can vote for him there in the next general election...

The Greens are the only major party with consistently sensible positions on non-violent foreign policy, opposition to torture, and promotion of human rights.

They are also undoubtedly the most democratic party - for example they support a fully elected second chamber, and the facility to 'recall' unpopular politicians mid-term in response to petition. You won't find them with any dodgy billionaire donors, or selling favours to big business either.

They have respresentatives in the assemblies in London, Northern Ireland, and Scotland; two MEPs in Brussels, and many councilors all over Britain. They are expected to have their first Westminster MPs at the next election.

Join up! :o)

geop

regarding the alternative view...
between kennedy and a guy who "read his article" I will take Kennedy's view.
this time when it happens again they will call it the Bradley effect.
this is just where we were last election. The insiders are whispering in
McCain's ear, just play the underdog, in the end you are going to pull an
upset like we have rigged twice before. These elections are now becoming
the false norm. Poll results cannot be trusted when people's will and belief in who they are voting for is systematically subverted.

Dirty Euro

The problem is if you say that there is corruption the bullies in USA politics claim you are a nut. I have always said 2000 and 2004 was stolen. But instanlty you are told you are conspiracy theorist if you point out the facts.
All sides do corruption and should be stamped out.

I remember one American on the radio saying they liked their politicans to be a bit dodgy, on ther basis it seemed that they would be better at beging dodgy for the USA. Well look what it has resulted in.

TripleRLtd

Ummm, geop, he didn't "just read the article". He actually devoted over a year to real fact finding, and subsequently, using actual facts, blows Kennedy's theory out of the water. You didn't actually read it, did you?...

whatajokeisajoke

Can whatajoke name an impartial inquiry and provide a URL for the results?

struggling

I said I would say hello. I have done.

Right everybody. Younge over at the GU has this today too. If both Tatchell and Younge are raising it, it's still a concern. Think of it like having a good defence but still needing to defend your corners and your free kicks, it still needs to be done. Ensuring that all Americans vote as per their conscience is imperative for democracy in America not to be abused. It has suffered too much abuse over the past eight years in particular, more than any of use could have conceived possible at the outset of Bush's Presidency.

If you dip into this link and read it through, you will see why the chance of a continuation of the Republicans is something to be feared indeed and battled against wholeheartedly and right to the last.:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22017

struggling

Here's something else of interest:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21771

I wonder as to the inquiry into the 2004 elections as to who conducted it since the Democrats only took control of a fillibusterable House in 2006. The Democrats have had more checking power, but no executive power. I believe that the evidence is strong that there were great voting irregularities in 2004.

Question though. Can Blacks and the working class in America be permanently enfranchised and interested in voting? A Democrat weakness has been in the past not appealing to much of what should be its core constituency. It shouldn't need an Obama to motivate your core.

Ian Kemmish

Whilst I broadly agree that Indian managed electronic voting a thousand times better than the US did, I can't help but notice that

1) you assume that faulty equipment exhibits a partisan bias without adducing an evidence to support this;

2) you assume that exit polls are reliable.

It always struck me that the biggest extraneous factor in the Republican victory in 2004 was the typical American voter's reaction to the number of "pinko Europeans" telling them how they ought to vote. Now it seems you're determined to repeat this mistake on our behalf, Peter. You're not a closet McCain fancier, are you?

Mat

The arguments about the legality of elections in the USA ultimately stop with the US supreme court. Out of its nine justices, just two were nominated by a democratic president (Clinton). The other seven were nominated by Ford (1) Reagan (2), Bush Senior (2) and Bush (2). As expected the court rejected any allegations of fraud in the year 2000 and handed Bush the presidency. If the vote is close this time then it will doubtless do the same again.

Mat

"Peter, your own Party is currently led by an unelected numpty, for whom the country didn't vote."

Whoever wrote this, get your facts right please. Mr. Tatchell isn't an MP and he isn't even a member of the Labour party! He's a member of and will be standing as a candidate for the Green party!

BUM

WHAT'S THE MATTER PETE? CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT?

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